Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Android | Google Podcasts | RSS
Rundown
In this episode we talk about our experiences in the minefield that is online (leftist, vegan) activism. We talk about vulnerabilities, gendered responses to our work, speech habits, view counts, the efficacy of debates, and much more. We also discuss how to navigate the real world as an online activist, and finish with some tips for people looking to build community around them in real life. We hope it’s as therapeutic a listen as it was to record!
Sources and Links
- Mexie’s YouTube channel: www.youtube.com/c/Mexie
- Marine’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Highonfruit1
- Mexie on Rev Left Radio talking climate change, veganism and radical food politics (shameless plug): https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/food-and-the-environment-climate-change-hunger-veganism
Support the Show
17 thoughts on “12. YouTube, Social Media, and Real Life: Unfiltered Thoughts”
Only about an hour in but this is incredibly enjoyable to listen to. It’s so weird, I’m so used to being critical of everyone I listen to (at least internally), but with you girls, I can never find a weak spot. You’re both just great. I relate so much to your aversion to YouTube competitiveness, to the ambiguity of trying to inform more people, yet also not care about numbers, and also about the cringe part of thinking about what you’ve put up in the past. It’s such a challenge (and a pain) to be a radical YouTuber. I’ve also done the exact same thing when it comes to “hiding” my channel from people I know, and not even just in real life, but on the internet as well. I just don’t want to be compared or critiqued by people whose feedback I know I would not value.
I laughed so hard when Mexie said, “Why don’t you debate Ask Yourself?!” LOL. Man, that guy has the most annoying sycophants. I remember someone on reddit telling me to watch his video “debunking” intersectionality, I replied something like “I don’t get my education from YouTube, especially not from people who can’t help but use the word “retarded” every two minutes”. They were disappointed and assured me he was really rigorous and worth listening to. Yikes. You know when you type “vegan” in the YouTube search box, it’s Vegan Gains that pops up first as a suggestion? The biggest voice to represent us vegans is someone who doesn’t read, is anti-social justice and who doesn’t even care to hide his hentai porn when he’s streaming. It’s really disappointing to think about. I think domineering people like that do more harm than good in the long run. I don’t want to rag on them personally though, I know they just don’t understand the systemic causes that have shaped their behavior.
YouTube is honestly such a cesspit, but I’m very glad you girls are on there to provide some genuinely educational and thought-provoking material. Having doubts is unavoidable, but believe me, you are doing great. Both the scripted and non-scripted versions of you are always worth listening to. Btw, I think you should mirror all these podcasts episodes to a dedicated YouTube channel as well. Wouldn’t hurt! 🙂
Thank you so much, Etienne! We really appreciate it. Glad to know it was so relatable (as glad as we can be that these are common concerns ;)). And could not agree more re: Vegan Gains and the other very loud faces of veganism that are so abrasive in so many ways, but really don’t see any harm in what they’re doing. We may consider making a dedicated YouTube channel as well 🙂
Wow.. I really had not thought Mexie would be so insecure about the way she presents herself, because she seems to be so natural in front of the camera in her videos. But I guess you can never know what’s going on inside another person’s head. To me you’re both very articulate and present yourselves just fine.
I’m also kind of ambiguous about debates because they can be fruitful but also turn quickly into bloodsports where the point is not to discuss the topic at hand but to win the other party, which is pointless. What I like about debates is the way they challenge both parties to really examine their own presuppositions and force each party to deal with very uncomfortable talking points. But as you guys said the competitive form tends to get more important than the actual ideas. I guess having debates in a written format might be more fruitful as you have more time to digest and think about the arguments you’re reading or addressing.
I get that debating would be frustrating when you’re trying to convince people that bad and lazy arguments like “taxation is theft” are bad or when the other party is just totally uninformed. But unfortunately I have to say that leftists are sometimes really terrible as well when confronted with certain topics (and I say this as a leftist myself!). I just wish leftists would read intelligent libertarians and right wingers more because the way many leftists respond to certain uncomfortable right wing talking points just makes me cringe. I’m not saying this because I think right wingers’ worldview is correct but because leftists generally seem unable to address certain talking points in a convincing way, which I think is a consequence of not having had to confront and actually think deeply about uncomfortable topics.
To share a personal example of an educational reading experience (admittedly a bit extreme…): I read the infamous The Bell Curve (by Murray and Herrnstein) not long ago. It argues that one’s IQ is more a more important factor in predicting socio-economic outcomes than one’s class background (parental socio-economic status), although the book is more well known for claims about racial IQ differences. I don’t think I’ve ever read a book that would have made me so uncomfortable and angry but at the same time it really did force me evaluate my own presuppositions because I was forced to argue against the text all the time. Moreover, I felt like I had to do some damage control afterwards so I ended up digging up research on IQ and reading James Flynn (a socialist and a researcher who has written about IQ and arguing against all these right wing people for decades), which I never would have done if it wasn’t for having to confront these uncomfortable topics in the first place.
Now when I read leftist or liberal critiques of The Bell Curve I notice how bad and not convincing many of them are. It really feels like a lot of people who hate the book have never read it or they can’t deal with the arguments presented in it so they resort to terrible ad hominem arguments and straw-manning the actual contents of the book, which frankly makes liberals and leftists look hysterical and weak. And that’s a shame because one can develop a good leftist criticism of the book and more generally of libertarian or racist talking points relating to IQ. E.g. one can accept that IQ tests measure something real, that a big chunk of the heritability of cognitive ability is genetic (which btw doesn’t mean that “racial” group differences are genetic) and that IQ *does* predict individual economic outcomes independently of class background yet come to totally different conclusions than right wingers do: what we want as socialists is the abolition of inequality, exploitation and oppression (which are necessary features of capitalism even if people started with the exact same abilities and family environments) and the right to a decent living, self-determination and access to services for everyone regardless of how well they might score in IQ tests.
I won’t go into details of this weird morbid obsession I’ve had with IQ research lately. My point is this: it’s OK to hate debates but I don’t think one should be able to evade having to confront topics that we, as leftists, would rather not deal with because it makes us uncomfortable. Debates force us to do that and if one doesn’t engage in debates (either by talking to people on the other side or reading their literature) one is going to end up with an impoverished understanding of reality and even of our own views as leftists. Moreover, if we don’t do it we’re not gonna be able to convince anyone who might be otherwise inclined to believe right wing talking points. We need to deal with right wing talking points, either debunk them if appropriate or accept the facts presented if necessary but give our own spin to them.
Thank you! I (Mexie) typically am fairly confident, but we all have our issues.
And absolutely – we encourage everyone to read widely, read opposing views, and think critically about all information that is presented. We also think that discussions with people with opposing views are certainly productive (or they can be), and that they can help us to refine our own arguments or find better ways to phrase our own points. We merely meant that framing it as a winner vs. loser kind of confrontation really is not productive at all, and that it’s incredibly frustrating trying to argue against axioms that are not backed up by anything in the slightest, other than sheer (unfounded) popular belief.
really good podcast. this is some very frank and honest discussion about yourselves here, and you both somehow manage to stay on point and be relevant to your material (which i doubt i could do – i’m way too tangential and can follow breadcrumbs to an interesting place but not where i wanted to end up) its a strength of your podcasts, that you two get on so well and allow yourselves to be so honest with each other and us listeners.
i’ve just started a youtube channel myself, if i were pinned down to describe it, id call it intersectional/marxist/vegan talks about art and life. i have been an artist for a while now, but have refrained from “putting myself out there” because i didn’t think i had enough to say/the means to say it. i definitely relate to feeling isolated in real life with my perspective and who i am, and feeling a vague paranoia about being discovered to be, all along, that “commie”, “hippie”, “smart-ass”, “weirdo”, “wuss”, “bum” and a billion other things that they suspected me to be. for this reason, i feel i have made a very timid start to my channel, sticking to a dry academic focus, which i have always felt has constrained me from expressing the depth of feeling i have for politics, or as i call it, “why are all these people fighting each other over non-renewable resources?”.
i want to thank you both for doing what you do in such an intelligent and authentic way, i for one, have learned how to be a better vegan/person by digitally sitting at your feet and listening to your wisdom (i know how schmaltzy that sounds – oh well)
Ah, thank you for saying that. We felt like we were getting too tangential 😂
Your channel sounds wonderful – feel free to link it here so that people can check it out! We absolutely relate to the paranoia.
Thank you so much for the support <3
sure thing, here’s my channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_xzN5BEgCbks5Hn4OaRZMQ?view_as=subscriber
🙂
Thank you for sharing your stories !!
Hello. I have a question, not related to this episode, because I do not know where to put questions haha. My question is if in the future will there be a podcast regarding the topic of antinatalism. With this I refer not to moral antinatalism o philosophical antinatalism (David Benatar, Julio Cabrera, etc.), which questions the mere idea of existence as something positive or valuable, be it a human animal or a non-human animal, in comparison with the “bliss” of non-existence. I’m alluding to something more like a political antinatalism (the childfree movement might be something akin to what I am thinking): that is, someone who does not have children because it is a form of resistance against the omnipresent social influence and enforcement of parenthood (and more importantly, motherhood, since a woman is “less of a woman”, when she is childless); as an act of resistance against creating more labour force for capitalists exploiters; because of the impact is has on the enviroment (in developed countries mostly; since countries in development have a marginal impact on the enviroment if we compare it to countries like China or USA); the use of resources and of non-human animals (since even vegan diets, in a global scale, use manure and animal residues); the idea of equilibrium and respect with all life forms that inhabit the earth (do we need to be more than 8 billion people? How is that amount of population compatible with other animal populations, if we expand and build, and put always as a priority human habitation, over non-human animal interests and needs?).
I know that overpopulation is not THE problem, the problem is the distribution and management of resources, the wealth inequality , etc. But it is a problem, still, if we think that since the earth could feed 16 billion people (made up number), we should do it, once we get rid of neoliberal capitalism, regardless of the space, and habitation, needs of the rest of the non-human animals. In other words, overpopulation could be a problem, if we think of a healthy and respectful coexistence with the many other non-human animals, instead of driving them off their lands, finishing most resources, push them to extinction, and save a few of them into questionable sanctuarys, because we need more space for trillions of vegan humans hahah. I hope my question is understood.
Greetings
Hi Pablo, thanks for your question. We may do a podcast on this in the future, yes, since the antinatalist movement is tied up with both the vegan and anticapitalist movements. That could be interesting to explore.
me again…you both prob. figured out im not a native english speaker…
what is a nana?
dictionary gives me this: a silly person; a fool (often as a general term of abuse)….your fool was shocked?
Nana is what I call my grandmother 🙂
oh that actually makes more sense
Nana might mean grandmother.
P. S.: I saw the about page… Should not this podcast be introduced as being “from the perspective of two revolutionary vegan friendly hotties” xD. I know Marine does not like compliments, or so I understood from one of the episodes, but I think beauty, be the kind it be (notwithstanding ethnicity, gender, body size, etc.), should be admired and valued, because we are embodied and are part of the world, and beauty exists in the world, and we admired the beautiful in it, it is one of the few pleasures of existence. Is it not a form of alienation from our own bodies to reject corporeal beauty? Of course beauty should not be eurocentric (we should be critical of beauty standards limitations and impositions), objectified, nor reduce the person to that sole aspect, since we are a multitude of talents, activities, interests, qualities and characteristics, not just a body to be admired. Also a stranger stopping a woman to say compliments, or catcalling, is annoying, invasive and unpleasant. But, how, then, can we communicate and admire the beautiful in each other, without being invasive and unpleasant, but also without forgetting our corporeal existence and desire for the beautiful? Would not we become like intellectual entities without regard and admiration for our bodies, either negative or positive haha? Is it dumb what I’m wondering? I would sincerely would like to know. Thanks.
P. S. 2: Sorry for the twice off topic comments
Greetings
It’s great to listen to your stories!
I could not subscribe or find the podcast on Google play or android. Is it because it is not available to some countries? I’m in Uruguay.
Thank you! I’m not sure why it is not letting you subscribe… it should work in all countries. Maybe try searching for the Vegan Vanguard in your Google Play podcast app.
Hi Mexie and Marine. I really appreciate you saying that I’m not alone. I’m one of those alienated people living in a small town in the Midwest where a lot of people are not very understanding. Being a rather sensitive, timid, and introverted person struggling with social anxiety (among other kinds of anxiety) and depression doesn’t help, I’ve found. (I actually live pretty close to the towns where Ronald Reagan was born and lived as a kid if that’s any indication of how things are around here.)
Anyway, I’ve been watching Mexie’s YouTube videos for the last couple of years, but I’m just now getting to listening to the podcasts and watching Marine’s videos as well. Sorry, I’m slow.